Lutherans to Debate Gay Clergy


An article in the paper today examines whether the nations largest Lutheran denomination will allow people in same-sex relationships to serve as pastors. One of the revisions of their ministry standards to try to get this passed is to: Let congregations employ gay and lesbian people in “committed” relationships as clergy. This is what one of their Bishops said about differences over homosexuality:       ” They are driven more by the hysteria in the culture than by what  Scripture says. If someone tried to argue this is going to be the test as to whether we are scriptually faithful or not, that’s a hard argument to make because Scripture says so little about homosexuality”

I really don’t get it.

There’s a lot of activities we humans can participate in.I believe we have  a Creator that is interested in how we live our lives and not only that, He has given us a guidebook for us to live by, and in that guide book  He makes it pretty clear what He likes and doesn’t, things we should do and things we shouldn’t.

Now I know that we who are believers in God all have faults, weaknesses, blind spots, monkeys on our back, skeletons in our closets, black eyes, warts, nasty habits, etc., etc. But I believe that scriptures are true that say: If we walk in the Light as He is in the light, then the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin and  He is faithful and just and that if we confess our sins He  will forgive  them.

That said, here’s some problems I have with this whole gays -out-in- church thing. And also let me say this, I’m not a homophobic. I have several gay friends. I love them as much as a lot of my other friends. But  if they were my Christian brothers or sisters, I would have to tell them that God’s word clearly teaches that they have to abandon that lifestyle, abandon their homosexuality, if they want to please God. The bible clearly teaches that if they wanted to live in good standing with other Christians and God they  would have to try to give up that lifestyle, just like if they were in an immoral heterosexual relationship, or if they were involved in some scam, or if they were constantly going out and getting drunk, or if they had a really nasty temper and were always going off on people.

Some observations about what the Bishop said in the above article:

1) He says ” scripture says so little” about homosexuality. How much does it have to say? Isn’t even once enough? Here’s three pretty clear scriptures that deal expressly with homosexuality: Genesis 19, Romans 1:26-27, 1st Corinthians 6:9.

2) The statement “driven by hysteria”:  concerns for the truth of God’s Word is not hysteria.

3) The concept of the legitimacy of a “committed” homosexual relationship versus an “uncommitted ” one. According to this logic, it’s fine if I get drunk all the time, just so I always do it with the same person.

It’s funny. You rarely hear of Christians who engage in heterosexual relationships outside of their marriages try to legitimize their conduct and attempt to claim full church fellowship. Now I admit that there’s a lot of people who try to live on” both sides of the fence” and live for the world and try to live for Christ but usually their vices are secret ones. There’s not too many married church-goers who would blatantly and openly have a mistress or lover on the side and try to fully participate in the things of God. People who do are usually seen as sick puppies. People like Tony Alamo, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim  Baker. Why do homosexuals try this? Is it their special status in our society as the poor, picked-on  minority, picked on because all they want to do is love each other? So, because of this status, gays are given all kind of special considerations: special insurance benefits not given to heterosexual live-ins, special hate laws, and holiness before God. Heterosexuals who violate moral standards usually pay big prices. We see this over and over where business leaders, politicians, and church leaders lose jobs, credibility, and their families for indulging their lusts. And usually rightfully so.

I’m not not saying people who have these urges are not in a struggle. I haven’t the slightest doubt it’s a monumental struggle. We shouldn’t turn our back on anyone who’s searching for God. He knows how all of us struggle with our fallen lives. But we have to try our best to turn away from our base desires and turn to the only answer. The Answer: Jesus Christ.


6 Responses to “Lutherans to Debate Gay Clergy”

  1. Brian Dever Says:

    I’m with ya, brother! Agree 100%. Oh, and you can add what Leviticus (18:22 & 20:13) says to your argument.

  2. schmoffly Says:

    I don’t put homosexuality on a pedastool when compared to other sins, but it seems to have gotten that reputation with most Christian groups. However, homosexuality aggravates me perhaps more than any other sin there is. I’ll tell you why. Let’s take I Corinthians 6:9-10…

    “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

    Let’s break it down. Would you allow a a person who worshiped idols be your pastor? No. Would you allow a person who was continuously cheating on his wife, in the public eye (in the spirit of the out-in-the-open gay pastor debate)? No. A male prostitute who stood at the corner of the Church and whored himself out? No. What about a thief? No. An alcoholic who would be preaching one weekend and be throwing up at Tootsies from alcohol poisoning the next? No. What about a swindler who went nursing home to nursing home taking stealing old widow’s social security money? No. A man who engages in sexual intercourse with another man? N- Yes, of course, come preach for us!!!

    You see, it doesn’t make any sense. Why would you scroll through that whole list and pick out homosexuals to say it is okay to be a pastor? It is definitely because the practice of homosexuality has become socially acceptable.

    For example, gay marriage has been legalized in some Northern states. What if thievery was legalized or swindling or male prostitution? Yeah, it would never happen. However, for some reason, it is considered cool to be “metrosexual” where people are not sure if you are gay or straight, and TV shows like “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” are multimillion dollar hits. What if a show like “How to Swindle Your Grandmother Out of Her Savings” aired on CBS next week? Or “How to Cheat on Your Spouse Without Them Knowing!” Sounds ridiculous right? How come that sounds so ridiculous when there are shows like “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” on TV?

    I have heard arguments stating that someone is born with the genes to be gay. I have people on both sides of my family that battled alcoholism for parts of their life (They conquered their addiction, though!). It is been shown that someone can be predisposed genetically for alcoholism. Therefore, it is okay for me to sit at home and get slammed on Jack Daniels every night, right, because I have a gene that tells me too? No, of course not! No one would feel sorry for me and tell me that it’s okay, I don’t need to fight it, just give in to what my body is telling me to do. I would go to AA meetings, have a sponsor, someone would watch my money for me. Why is this the case with alcohol (which is in the Corinthians verse) but not okay with homosexuality?

    Lastly, even if you do have a gene that makes you gay, you have the same Biblical option that everyone on Earth has: You can abstain from sexual activity until becoming committed in a heterosexual marriage.

    So, let’s stop all this nonsense. Would you go to Church and be able to seriously listen to a pastor who was telling you how to go to Heaven and be a good person when he was cheating on his wife and selling himself for $20 to any bloke who passes by? No.

    Why is this situation with homosexual pastors any different? It isn’t.

  3. I totally agree. The thing is, unlike a lot of the things you mentioned, up until a few years ago, homosexuality was considered deviant, perverted, extremely abnormal. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that according to the Word of God, it’s extra sick to Him. To be fair though, I’m sure any refusal to do what He tells us is sickening to Him.
    Please take your comments and make a post .

  4. Booshinator Says:

    The Lutherans are behind the times! The Roman Catholics have looked the other way for a long, long time; even protected their pedophile clergy by reassigning them to other parrishes when their homosexual offenses became public knowlege. How many of these homosexual offenders faced criminal prosecution or excommunication? I think not enough of them to be sure. So, this is nothing new in the history of the church unfortunately.

    But, if we all just a bunch of sinners and that is all that we will ever be then is there any hope of victory over any sin; regardless of the sin??

  5. This is where I think the Bible, and the whole “Him” and “Making Him happy” thing just falls short. If you think that denying one’s own homosexuality is a “monumental struggle”, you’re only scratching the surface. To put it into perspective, how about if “He” only wanted females to come to the Kingdom, yet it is plain as day, you have a penis hanging there. To get into the Kingdom, you will have to convince yourself that your penis isn’t there, it doesn’t exist. You are a woman, as that is the only being that can please “Him”.
    With so much to say on homosexuality, it becomes clear you have not actually talked with your gay friends about their sexuality. In a sense you have already written them off because of your preconceived idea about what it means to be Gay, to feel Gay, what Gay is. In a sense, that makes your relationship with your Gay friends superficial. You both know there is a deep and wide chasm between you, your devotion to this particular version of scripture, and their Gay-ness. The only way to really understand and be able to accept each other in true friendship, is to try and understand each other’s extremely contradictory existences. With this conversation with your Gay friends, you might get a clearer idea on what it means to be Gay. With this knowledge, you will be able to adapt your philosophy based on the reality of what is Gay or at least go forth with your current version of reality but with the first hand wisdom of the concept of Gay.

  6. thanks for your reply Josh. No , I ‘ve never done that. I’ve got a good friend that’s totally given himself over to a gay lifestyle after years of fighting it. I’d love to talk to him about it, just talk. Not in judgment, but as friends. Would I try to change his heart about how he’s handling his struggle? Yes, I would. Josh, the gay struggle can’t be any worse than the testosterone-driven desire that men have for women! I’m faced with it constantly: billboards, magazines, TV,newspapers, at work, at school, good-looking women everywhere! And I’m very confident that God calls me to a monogamous relationship with my wife. Just like he tells gays that that’s not good, he tells me if I try to get more, it’s not good. He made us, He knows what we need, and what’s best. Not what our feelings tell us, not what our hormones tell us, not what our eyes, and lusts tell us, but what He tells us.

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